Apple Silicon Macs running iOS apps

This may be a strange question, but I just don’t know the landscape and thought I’d see if someone here, does. :slight_smile:

So I understand that Apple Silicon Macs can now run iOS apps on them. That’s lovely, but it makes me wonder (nerd what I are) immediately about the limitations. MG3 after all is a plugin host (both on Mac and on iOS), and so are my two favorite iOS apps, Audiobus and the QuantiLoop looper.

Without boring anyone with the reasons why, here’s what I’d like to understand with some confidence:

  • Is it possible for a native-Mac app (e.g. MG3) to run such an iOS-app-on-Mac (e.g. QuantiLoop) as a plugin? (I might guess not, figuring there’s probably some sandboxing happening in the stack to make that work in the first place, but man, if that were possible, that would be dynamite.
  • Is it possible for one of these iOS-apps-on-Mac (e.g., QuantiLoop, Audiobus) to run a native Mac plugin?
  • Are there any other ways to “wire” audio between a mix of native Mac apps and iOS-apps-on-Mac (e.g., like Inter App Audio) ?

I’m not really sure how excited about this I should be, but if there is some way to let MG3 and QuantiLoop work together on Mac, well, that would indeed be something to get excited about!

Anyway, does anyone have thoughts on this?

Thanks!

It’s quite a broad question and I’m not an expert but I have sought interoperability between macOS and iOS for many years now so I can chime in a little.

Some apps can run on both if the developer wants/allows their app to do so – think Moog’s apps. There are functional and financial consideratons here for developers that will dictate the course commercial software takes.

I’d rather find interoperability solutions than wait for developers to grant wishes so I offer these items for your consideration:

  1. IDAM – Apple’s native technology for sending bidirectional MIDI between iOS and macOS devices over USB (*audio is monodirectonal);
  2. iConnectivity interfaces – a complete hardware-software multiplatform audio-MIDI interconnection solution;
  3. NovoNotes’ SideRack – iOS application that exploits USB connection to send to-receive from audio-MIDI AUv3s on iOS devices via USB;
  4. Studiomux – This app is now mostly defunct but attempted to do what the iConnect devices do without the additional hardware…it was quite good while it lasted, if not a tad buggy.

It’s always exciting when an iOS application/AUv3 you love gets ported to macOS or vice versa. I was ecstatic when Animoog Z arrived on macOS. The thing is, there always seems to be a trade off. An iConnectivity device may be your best bet at this point in time. Works for me. SideRack is quite nice too but far more limited.

Wow, thank you for that quite thoughtful reply. Much to cogitate upon.

I suspect I may inhabit a similar philosophical space to what you describe–always on the lookout for creative solutions to specific problems (which for me at least usually arise from wanting to do what nobody else is interested in), but also leery of truly tilting at windmills for at-best-Pyrrhic victories**.

And so I think you may have confirmed for me what my second gut-reaction was, upon learning that Silicon Macs can run [at least some] iOS apps.

  • First reaction: Wait, what? That means I could run QuantiLoop on the Mac! (mind spins intoxicating thoughts)
  • Second reaction, about 5m later: Hm, I would bet that getting audio to and from those two might not be as full-featured as I might need.

From my first look at it, I am guessing that when you say IDAM is “monodirectional” for audio, that means that you can send audio from the iOS app to the hosting Mac, but not the other way around. (Naturally, that’s backwards from what I want to do.)

I remain interested in the iConnectivity devices, which I looked at when researching something else a few years ago–but I still wonder about the practicality of dealing with two devices each having latency to deal with. If you’ve used them, how have you found managing two devices?

It’s all theoretical at this point anyway, since I as yet have neither a Silicon Mac to try it on, nor an iPad capable of running MG3 to try other ideas on. I know it’s time to upgrade both devices, but my budget keeps getting cranky with me.

Still, I much appreciate all the intel. Thank you!


** I know. I mix metaphors on purpose. :slight_smile:

Yes.

I have been using an iConnectAUDIO4+ as my primary audio-MIDI interface for a decade now. It was initially hard to get used to but I’m happy with it now. I have realistic expectations of what it can do and there are no incredible issues with latency in my experience.

Very much so because iOS/iPadOS has so many limitations compared to macOS (or Windows) that it is virtualy impossible to predict every problem you will encounter in your quest to get the two working together.

FWIW, QuantiLoop, which I have no experience with, has a macOS version but it’s only a standalone application – I would expect many limitations. If you’re looking for a looper (probably as a plug-in) there are surely other options, though I know you have a soft spot for QL. Have you ever tried Audio Damage’s Enso looper?

Thanks again for the insights. I may look into using the iConnectivity hardware at some point (and you’ve been really clear about the caveats, thanks for that!), although what I’m really trying to do is simplify my setup and breakdown, and managing two devices instead of one seems like going in the wrong direction. :slight_smile:

I have not yet looked into the Enso looper, but I will do that–thanks for the recommendation.

Did you say there is a QuantiLoop available for Mac? I’ve not seen that before, certainly not at the main website; where are you seeing it? I’d deal with it in standalone, for sure!

It’s a fair question to ask what it is I like so much about QuantiLoop, and really I can distill it down to the two features that separate it from anything else I’ve seen thus far: 1) it’s a four-track looper (four seems to be enough for me), and 2) it also carries a feature that is critical for me: loop overdub decay.

I have not found this combination of features in either a hardware or software looper that is not exorbitantly expensive. So, for example, on the software side, I’ve heard of Ableton Live being able to do this, but I’m not invested in that landscape. It’s theoretically possible that the old SooperLooper VST might be able to do it, but I’ve never seemed to be able to get that running. Every now and then I check in on currently available looping apps for Mac, and there are usually several that seem very well featured except for the overdub decay problem, which again is a deal-breaker for me.

On the hardware side, my first taste of overdub decay goodness was via the TC Electronic Ditto X4, which I have and absolutely love, but it’s not a small pedal, and even it “only” has two tracks (where QL’s third and fourth tracks are sometimes very nice to have). The other one I actually have, Pigtronix’ Infinity 2 looper, is a bit more limited than the Ditto X4, but it’s much smaller, still has two available loops (albeit series only) and overdub decay, and is very affordable for what it does.

There aren’t many other hardware looper options in this specific space, somewhat to my surprise. Pigtronix has the Infinity 3 now, but it’s bigger and spendier than the 2, and doesn’t really do any more of what I want. EHX is in the space with a couple of its loopers, and actually has gotten closest to QuantiLoop with the 45000 four-track hardware looper with overdub decay, but that’s both big and expensive. (And the EHX is a better configuration than the similarly-expensive Aeros Loop Station, in that the 45000 is intended for the tabletop with a support footswitch, while the Aeros is designed as a floor pedal that can be supported by a MIDI control surface on the table.) Other than that, I’m just not aware of other good options–although I’m always open to being further educated!

And so against all that, there is QuantiLoop, fitting neatly into an Audiobus scene along with MG2, TONEX, and other apps that I can use on iPad…with its four tracks, overdub decay, and preset switching. Via a compact MIDI control surface I already have on the tabletop (Korg nanoKONTROL), I can manage its tracks and overdub decay level without bending over; and via a compact MIDI controller I already have at my feet (XSONIC Airstep) I can assign it a single footswitch (or more of course, if I want) to rec-dub-play-undo-redo-stop-clear whatever I need to do with my foot.

If such is possible for Mac, and is affordable to the perpetually broke, I’d love to hear about it. Until then, the idea of steering toward iOS is persistently attractive. :slight_smile:

Seems it’s also AUv3 but there aren’t many DAWs on macOS that will host AUv3 — Logic Pro and Live 12 come to mind. I’m quite sure MG3 does too but I’ve not confirmed that yet.

Ah, okay, so this just looks like it’s advertising that QL will indeed run on Silicon, not that there’s a native Mac variant. Happy for the clarity.

And I think I may have just had my mind blown, in taking a brief look at the Enso looper you mentioned. In short: thank you!

What first got my attention is that the manual appears to have been written by someone who is both an enthusiast and who knows how to write useful doc, and who cares enough to do it well. That’s impressive enough on its own. So, I wandered right into “Loopers: A Brief Introduction”, and right in the first paragraph I see this:

As such, looping is as old as electronic music itself, but the compositional approach of using tape-based delays and looping to build layers of sound is primarily attributed to the mid-20th-century musicians Terry Riley and Steve Reich, followed by Brian Eno and Robert Fripp.

It’s hard to describe how precisely that hit me. Wow! I’ll probably have to invest in that tool just to support people like that. :slight_smile:

And frankly, from a scan of the rest of the manual, this may be exactly what I’m looking for anyway. Certainly it seems to support overdub decay, and if I’m reading things right, it may even be one better. Enso looks to me like the design is to support a one-track looper motif, but since it’s a standard plugin, I might be able to use as many of them as I want, to the limits of my Mac.

Do you use it yourself? If so, have you tried using it as multiple instances to achieve a “multi-track” looper?

I’ll wind up at least trying it out. Thank you very kindly for the nudge–I obviously hadn’t heard of it before, and the prospect is more than just a little exciting! :slight_smile:

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(having just read the whole Enso manual at greater leisure…)

My mind is absolutely abuzz right now. I cannot believe I had not run across this before. Thank you so kindly for that simple suggestion.


We'll see of course when I get a chance to actually test-drive it with audio and MIDI control (probably Thursday evening), but I've got the demo version loading into MG3 right now, and if this works the way the manual lays it out, I think it just solved my conundrum in the most complete way I could ever have asked for.

Man, what a day. :slight_smile:

Enso requires a clock signal to operate, as I recall, hopefully MG3’s clock will handle that.

Interim update. I feel like I’m learning very slowly here, but I did get some time tonight to experiment with trying to set up a multitrack looper with Enso in MG3–and I think I’ve got the basic idea working!

More to come; my intention is to work out some more of the kinks once the brain 1) sleeps and 2) chews on it all a little more, and then see if I can build it back up from scratch with what I’ve learned thus far. If I can do that, then I’ll try and post the setup for anyone interested.

Key takeaway from the “new to Enso” perspective: I feel like I’m missing something obvious with how to set up a looper instance to quantize the way my foot wants to kick on the initial record. Will have to play around with that some more. (And I haven’t even looked at “sectors” yet, oi!)

Anyway, I is a happy boy looking forward to more R&D on this one. :slight_smile:

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It reads like that you’re happy with your looper, which is good! I just want to mention that Guitar Rig 7 Pro has an excellent looper included that works also fine in MG3.

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Audio Damage has a long but useful tutorial video for Enso. Bonus is it’s a multiplatform app.

I wound up going a different direction than Guitar Rig some years ago, so I hadn’t looked into its looper. Does it have what I’m calling “overdub decay”, or what Enso calls “feedback” control? I couldn’t see something obvious in the screencap that says yes, but sometimes features can be buried. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I noticed that and should have some time today to review it. Looking forward to understanding some of this better!

No, it has no overdub decay feature.

Here’s a free Looper option, Mobius Looper 3:

Thanks for the suggestion. I seem to recall looking at Mobius a while back and concluding that it did not have overdub decay/feedback controls. It would be interesting to know if it’s since added that feature, but I didn’t see anything obvious in a quick search on the forums. And at any rate I’m happy as a clam digging in to Enso, at least for the nonce. :slight_smile:

It has always had decay/feedback controls. Mobius 3 is a recent revamping of Mobius 2. It is now 64 bit and in versions for Mac, Windows, and Apple Silicon.