I have now been able to get MG3 to host some of my IK Multimedia instrument plugins successfully (e.g… Syntronik, MODO Bass), but for some reason SampleTank just isn’t “hearing” the notes from MG3, either hosted as a plugin within MG3 or receiving the MIDI output from the MIDI machine. I’m not sure what’s happening there–I can see MG3 tracking the notes, but for some reason they don’t seem to be passing on to SampleTank the way they pass on to the other instruments.
Any other SampleTank users out there that might clue me in on what I’m missing?
I don’t use SampleTank really but I downloaded this free ST 4 CS just to check, and it seems to me like a probable cause for this is their use of MIDI channels as compared to how those are used with MG3.
In MPE (default mode) MG3 is sending all note information on MIDI channels 2-7 (as is standard for MPE Lower Zone)
(Def.) MPE Lower Zone: Channel 1 as the Master Channel and one or more Member Channels allocated increasing from channel 2.
Sample tank however sets up their instrument to play on MIDI Channel 1 for the first instrument, MIDI Channel 2 for the second, and so on.
This will result in you not hearing SampleTanks first instrument (on Channel 1) when
or you can use the MPE or MultiChannel setting, but either way, you need to change the MIDI channels in the SampleTank setup to hear all instruments when using multiple channels. Here is where you do that:
Just click and drag any of the buttons from the MIDI channel row, to get either.
all instruments on Ch 1 (for Legacy MIDI 1.0), or
all Instruments on Channels 2-7, where all instruments sound consecutively for all notes added - a chord with two note will use the instruments on channels 2 and 3, whereas a chord with 3 notes, will use the instruments on channels 2,3, and 4
Wow, thank you for that tidbit! I’ll definitely try that as soon as I can sit down with the rig.
I’ll also echo cbible0584’s sentiment as well. Your work is really outstanding: clear, to the point, and accessible to MIDI neophytes like myself. Thank you for that.
Just to follow up on this, with both a report and another (well…a further) question.
Thank you again @LoFiLeiF for the suggestion to configure SampleTank to listen on MPE-standard channel(s); that worked like a charm, and I can now get SampleTank to play back using MG3.
(As a side note, this was the first chance I’ve really had to sit down and just play it for a bit, and I’ve gotta say that the general improvement in tracking over what I remember from MG2, is impressive. I suspect part of it is that I may be learning better how to play “friendlier” for tracking, and part of it is just being startled by how much more sensitive the dynamics seem, and by being able to play natural vibrato–but it seems to be more even than that. This is wonderful.)
So my further question is now this: I can now get SampleTank to play back for me…but only monophonically, when in MPE mode. I can get polyphony if I switch to MIDI 1, but I haven’t figured out how to get it to do that when on MPE–which is where I’d like to be.
Interestingly, it seems to be just SampleTank, too. IK’s MODO Bass instrument does polyphony just fine, as does Syntronik–but not SampleTank. I haven’t tried this yet, but thought of it as I write this–do I need to declare a separate row for each of the MPE channels 2-7?
Anyway, I’d love to just get myself going on MPE mode and not look back, but I’m not there yet.
You are actually getting a polyphonic playback in MPE mode as well. It is just that between the fact that the notes are being spread out on different channels, and with the possibility to assign instruments per channels, (it appears as if) each instrument is played back to you monophonically. If you want polyphony for a particular instrument, you need to choose that instrument for all channels in use (which is channels 2-7 in the particular case of MG3. Other MPE controllers can use other channel distribution principles)
So what I think you are looking for is ensembles to be played back to you polyphonically? Groups of instruments?
Ensemble polyphony have been possible in the MG3 MULTI mode if SampleTank had an OMNI option (which it doesn’t - you can only choose for an instrument in ST to receive data on any of the individual channels 1-16, not from whatever is incoming on all channels (OMNI mode).
You would not have polyphonic bends in MG3 MULTI mode (even if ST had OMNI mode). So if you want a couple of ST instruments to run together as an ensemble in MG3 you need to open multiple instances of ST (on different chains) with each one dedicated to a particular instrument to receive on all of channels 2-7, for each one.
This is not a really practical way of setting up since it means loading,6,12, or 18 instruments, but I did a template with ST and two instruments in FULL MPE mode if you want to have something like a template. It is of course very straining for your computer to build your instruments this way. But it is a start. SampleTank MPE setup.patch (14.7 KB)
I also have an alternative setup with both instruments setup in one instance of SampleTank. There might be some CPU gains to this, but with the downside of having to use the the internal mixer setting in ST to adjust for the volume relationship between them. SampleTank compound instrument MPE setup.patch (14.3 KB)
Maybe you are not looking for MPE ensembles at all? Maybe it is just the ensemble polyphony? And in that case I have no great ideas at this point, besides using the same one channel for all instruments in MIDI 1.0 mode.
Edit: I realize I am getting lazy in my descriptions as I am using “MPE” (very loosely) to refer to only the polyphonic bends character trait, and not at all considering stuff like CC74 implementation and perhaps any demands on a particular PitchBend value being used.
regarding " all instruments sound consecutively for all notes added - a chord with two note will use the instruments on channels 2 and 3, whereas a chord with 3 notes, will use the instruments on channels 2,3, and 4" Is this standard for MPE or just sample tank? I thought with MG Hex we assigned midi channels per string. I see the default in MGHex is channels 3-8. But, Sampletank does seem to play notes as you describe regardless of what string I’m playing.
It is the way MG3 is interpreting the MPE specifications. MPE can be set up in a lot of ways: With a Lower Zone or a Higher Zone (referring to with channnel is used as master channel for Global messages( Low =Channel 1, and Hight= Ch 16) All other channels CAN be used forl the note on/off, velocity, aftertoutch, pitchbend messages sent out.
Different controller make use of different sets of these channels for different reasons.
MIDI Guitar 3 use 6 channels (2-7) because it doesn’t need more. Maximum polyphony is to use all six strings. This is by no means a thing that can’t be changed. If MG3 want to fully support extended range guitars maximum polyphony potential, there will have to be some more channels added. Which is relatively unproblematic.
Look at a Roli Seabord. It uses all the remaining 15 MID channels for note messages, and the channel order isn’t necessarily set in stone either.
I just checked my Seabord with the (free) ShowMIDI software, and it seems like the have some sort of channel distribution that involve pitch identity. Any two identical notes played in sucession will be played on the same MIDI channel. Any note that isn’t the same as thevious one will get another.
So, in short, it is up to the developer to decide how their controller behaves here.
Yes, in either of two ways:
choose MIDI 1.0, and all played notes will appear on MIDI channel 1 (or whichever single channel you specify)
Choose MPE, and the notes will appear inside Sampletank in the order you have seen already. (on Channels 2-7)
And it is no difference (yet) if you choose the HEX tracker or the standard tracker. The fixed order @Dutti67 is talking about is only applying to the MIDI sent out on the CHAINS. But once they are passing on over into any instrument module it is still in any of the two ways described above. MIDI 1.0 or MPE distribution.
An easy way to check for yourself if you have the free UVI Workstation, for instance, is to compare the channels used in the HEXtracker with what is shown to be in use inside the Workstation. In this case, MG3 is using Channels 3-4 for the pitches i am playing on the E and B strings out on the CHAIN, but once inside the Workstation they appear on the MIDI channels 2-3 as expected with the MPE setting.
