in my other life as a computer tech, i have found the surface pro to be one of the worst laptops, weird stuff like overheating when off, and terrible performance, especially extreme wifi slowness.
a free tool which will help you determine if your laptop is suffering from power/battery/screen driver conflicts is latencymon, which you can get here:
latencymon will tell you right away if you are experiencing conflicts.
in terms of settings, optimally you want 128 samples. if you can’t change ableton live lite to 128, something is wrong.
24 bits is fine, 32 is probably overkill.
generally, if you have the option, an old desktop computer will probably deliver superior performance compared to a newer laptop. they suffer much less from the cpu throttling and power saving conflicts.
Here are some screenshots of output from LatencyMon suggesting my system has issues. Of course I don’t know how to resolve them. I did disable internet access while running this test.
OK, so I did a lot of laptop clean-up, including removing extraneous files and programs, and following a checklist to reduce DSP hits.
I also tried again to reduce the samples. In the Focusrite Driver settings window (a window I reach from my menu in Windows 10), I can only set it to 16 or 32 or higher. Even though I’m setting it to 16 outside of Ableton, as soon as I go into Ableton, it gets set back to 32. If I set the samples to 16 in Ableton or outside of Ableton, it disregards my request and leaves it at 32 when Ableton is open. There is no sample rate of 24 in the dropdown list for setting the samples rate. The Focusrite rep I spoke to said this was normal. Sigh.
I notice now, after all of my latest changes, that in LatencyMonitor that the Security product that seemed to be the biggest Page-default issue is not on the list anymore and the highest DSP culprit is a hub plugged into my laptop that allows me to plug in USB A to USB B on the laptop. The hub handles my Focusrite box, a thumb drive and my mouse, all USB A. I can’t really get rid of the hub, even though LatencyMonitor says it’s a Latency culprit.
(I have one USB C and one USB B connection on the laptop. No USB A. I guess I could remove the thumb drive for now. And I could get separate USB cables that would allow me to plug the Focusrite and the mouse directly into the laptop to get rid of the hub.)
I’ll try to use Ableton again but this time I’ll disconnect from the internet and see if I get better response. I may try using GuitarMidi2 in Reaper after that.
32 bits is fine, it results in larger files but that’s probably the only objection.
samples at 128 is key though. lower than 128 is probably not going to improve things. 256 is second best. 512 and up will result in too much latency.
the standard advice is that your audio interface always gets its own usb port. move the focusrite to the usb c connection and i bet things will improve.
the mouse and thumbdrive can share the existing hub.
turning wifi off while you’re recording is also a standard recommendation.
So I learned that my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 i5 actually has only one port, a USB-B port that will actually take my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 cable directly. So I removed the hub with the mouse on it from the computer, and reactivated the TouchPad so I could navigate around the computer with zero hub latency.
Unfortunately, I still have big-time latency in Ableton while playing my electric guitar through the audio interface and converting it to Midi with MidiGuitar2 and then using another plug-in to get an acoustic guitar sound.
I’m very impressed with what MidiGuitar2 can do, and very impressed by how good the acoustic guitar tone is when I pluck a string slowly.
I’ve also seen the videos of folks recording each of an electric guitar’s string with MidiGuitar2 and other products. It seems using 6 instances of MidiGuitar2 makes the DAW more responsive and removes some of the problems other folks have noticed with MidiGuitar2. And I like that developers are working on a way to make it easier to record each string separately.
But alas, these techniques are likely to add even more latency on my computer.
I will try another lower-latency DAW with MidiGuitar2, but I think my only realistic solution is a more powerful computer and that will have to wait.
Thank you for trying to help me so far. I learned a lot about a lot of things because of your help.
Just want to add this. I have a surface pro 4 running midi guitar 2 with a buffer size of 256 and latency is negligible at around 11 micro seconds.any less and I get crackles and pops. Been using it like this for the last 3 years. I would think you would need a supercomputer fast enough to keep up with a buffer as low as 32. Might get 128 on a fully stripped down version. The way I understand it is the buffer stores the input data until the CPU can process it if the buffer is too small most of the data is lost, too big and too much gets processed causing more latency. A moderate buffer (256) gets enough data to the processor without a lot of redundant harmonic repetition slowing it down. Remember that the midi information generated through midi guitar 2 is basically what note you are playing and how loud and how long.
If I understand you correctly, I’ll be changing the buffer to 256 in both Ableton and the Focusrite Driver tool to see if this affects what’s happening. I’ll also try several other buffer sizes while I’m at it and I’ll report back.
Unfortunately, I still have big-time latency in Ableton [/quote]
now that the hub is out of the picture, what does latencymon identify as the biggest issues?
but I think my only realistic solution is a more powerful computer
it’s not that you need a more powerful computer, it’s that windows is being ‘smart’ by throttling the cpu and giving the graphics driver priority over audio.
there are guides on how to attempt to overcome these issues. i was gifted a recent hp laptop and have spent days trying to get it operational for audio purposes. i’m almost there. i’d never use it on stage though.
consider trying an old desktop in your studio. you won’t need to follow any of those guides. a 3-4 year old desktop can usually be found for free, but in the worst case one won’t set you back more than $250.
your issue has nothing to do with mg2. you’d have the exact same problems if you were using an external midi keyboard.
and you still haven’t reported back on running mg2 in standalone mode. this will provide valuable info.
I use MG in a plugin host (Gig Performer) chained with up to 20 other plugins simultaneously (delay, reverb, compressor, pitcher, looper, multiple synths and samplers, audio and midi players, etc).
My laptop is an old Lenovo from 2012 with an i5 processor and 8GB RAM
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I have no problems with bugs, latency or audio crackling by setting my audio interface to 256 samples.
My laptop is only used for live playing and I use it without any worries, but this is only possible because I have optimized Windows for the sole use of audio applications.
Everything that does not concern audio applications has been uninstalled, along with subroutines, and other modules that can slow down or destabilize the system, and when playing I switch off firewall, real-time antimalware protection, web connection, etc.
I have applied the following 88-page guide, enabling me to do what a non-optimized i9 11th generation computer cannot do without risk.
I watched the LoF video again just now and noticed a few things I missed the first time around. (I haven’t been using the bridge pickup correctly, and the noise gate was not completely turned off or at 1 as the moderator suggested.)
I liked his argument that getting what you want depends on a lot of factors and you have to be willing to experiment, which I’ve only been doing a week or so. I also like his guitar. I happen to play an unamplified Parker Fly too, and I use it to avoid disturbing my neighbors when I’m practicing fingerstyle acoustic blues instrumentals ad nauseum. I can’t play my acoustic guitars at home. They are loud as pianos.
I’m very familiar with strategies for dampening strings and know you have to develop all kinds of ways to avoid extra sound and to cut sounds off at the right time. So, to hear the moderator talk about this strategy encourages me.
But the latency I’ve been dealing with has been too high for me to play, and too many notes up until now have been disappearing or appearing unexpectedly. I get that I have to play cleanly. But even some of the pieces that I’ve been playing for 50 years are being destroyed by this latency even if I play slowly.
In my use of the latency monitor, I discovered that the main reason it warned me of audio issues is I sometimes had my internet connection open. When that connection is disabled, the latency monitor says everything is good.
I have also taken the high-quality tone setting down to normal in Ableton.
I appreciate that others are probably using even older and less powerful computers than I have and getting strong results. This too is encouraging so I’m still experimenting with a few settings still and will report back if I make any progress.
the latency is not a result of your playing or your technique. all of the info you’ve provided so far clearly indicates that your laptop is not suitably configured for low latency audio.
there’s no point in trying to make music with the laptop as is. you need to eliminate the drop outs and glitches first.
again, this is not about your technique or skills. this is not about midiguitar. it is all about your laptop. fix that and you will be astonished. what you have now is like trying to play with gloves on.
I think there are a couple things that make this effort a losing proposition.
First, my laptop is not meant for this processing unless I spend even more time and money trying to get it right.
Second, as the LoF moderator pointed out: learning MidiGuitar2 is like learning a new instrument. It takes time to get it right. But my goal is not to learn a new instrument or create orchestration in a DAW. I just want to play my electric guitar with a good acoustic sound that I can listen to in headphones and that I can record. Unfortunately, most of the plug-in pedals I’ve seen just don’t cut it and the software modeling synths cost too much and have umpteen functions I don’t need.
While MidiGuitar2 makes it possible for me to hear nice-sounding acoustic guitar tones as I play, it just requires too much effort from me to get it right. You guys, I spent more than a week just learning how to make it work. I got some nice tones eventually, but the learning was only possible because some very nice folks helped me past some difficult challenges, some that (even I’m aware) have nothing to do with the product.
Maybe if I’d found even better documentation upfront or it was even more intuitive for a beginner (and I mean a beginner with almost no knowledge of DAWs or midi devices), this might have been easier. Or maybe if I had had better luck in the beginning, it would have been easier. Or if the program didn’t require as much CPU. Or If I was better technically, it would have been easier. But it wasn’t.
I’m going to be taking a break from it for a while. I want to practice my guitar, not fiddle with software and hardware.
I think MidiGuitar2 is a good product for folks with a lot of time and resources and there are some good people offering customer support and encouragement to shorten the time involved. That’s not true of many of the other products I’ve investigated in the music space, as you probably know.
When I come back to it, I’ll consider the Windows adjustments you recommended that I haven’t already done.
I use my MPP as an quick audio interface input for my guitar (via a 2m usb-c cable) - through to DAW & MG2 etc.
My Midi Guitar 2 technique is fairly average but as I mostly use guitar sound layered with synth my deficiencies are not glaringly obvious (IMHO ).
Regarding the MPP Acoustic guitar IRs: it isn’t something I use or explored to any extent apart from testing a french violin IR which made my guitar sound like a bright banjo .
@Zook You’re right: when too many technical problems prevent you from playing your instrument and enjoying the music, it is best to take a break and let things settle down.
You can then come back later and tackle the subject point by point.
Here is an example:
Here is a point on which you can already eliminate MG as the cause of the cpu load, this load comes from elsewhere, so you will have to focus your research solely on this point without taking into account the programs launched but only the status of your computer at rest.
For your information, I have attached an image of MG that I have loaded with all the possible plugins.
In the following image, on the left no program is loaded and on the right MG is loaded and I am playing.
You’ll see that MG uses only 1% more cpu cycles.
Little by little you will get to grips with the difficulties until you reach the point where you will be able to enjoy playing without any technical worries other than the constant improvement in MG’s playing technique.
It is a piece of software that I cannot live without and that I have been using live for years with no other concern than the pleasure of playing for myself and my audience. But I recognise that it has taken patience and methodology to get to this point.
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