Towards zero-latency guitar synths…

[JamO]

I’m glad to announce that we have some new interesting developments coming out within the next few days - codenamed Guitar Mods, alongside the next MG3 update.

The main attraction of Guitar Mods is that it can morph guitar into other instruments. These instruments we call Mods as they are (unlike MIDI instruments), somehow “modeled out of guitar sound”. Since it’s in the audio domain, it has almost no latency and feels more like playing guitar, than a full MIDI based system.

The vision behind this effort is this long lurking idea that maybe… maybe… we can make almost all MG3 modules work in the audio domain - on real guitar sound - in addition to the MIDI domain:

Just like some of you noticed in that Transposer and Whammy suddenly started to work also on guitar audio, now also Sustainer (infinite sustain, freeze sustain, piano-like sustain) and Chromatic (auto-tuning) runs in this audio domain, when using Mods. It’s possible that more modules will follow along.

So this fluffy vision, is what we call Guitar Mods. Its is just a pilot project and proof-of-concept for now. It’s free for now (for MG users) and it’s also possible we drop it completely, it if the results aren’t encouraging enough.

I think also Guitar Mods will serve as a place where we offload experimental things and audio modules that are not really needed in MIDI Guitar 3. We can keep MG3 more lean, focused on MIDI, which makes it easier to finally come out of beta.

What we have right now is a starting point - 7 different Mods instruments, that are very different as a proof of concept. Also Sustain, Chromatic, the pitch modules and a new Unison module run with Mods, all very different things, and so far it all seems to come together reasonably well.

It will be available, possibly within a few days as a new App/AUv3 plugin on Mac and iOS (Windows optimizations still pending..). For those who want run it all (both MIDI synths and Mods) together, a new plugin system has been added to MG3 so that if Mods are installed, MG3 will load Mods into MG3, as native modules.

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Edit (November 3rd):

Sustain/Unison/Swell modules now works on guitar.
Mod morphing cascading.

Towards zero-latency guitar synths…

MIDI Guitar 3.0.66 was just uploaded with a real guitar sustainer as the Sustain module works on guitar sound (when Guitar Mods are installed and enabled). You should generally use it with Unison and there is also a new Swell module that also works on guitars. Also, now Mods can be combined by simply cascading more Mods. This way they morph into each other, vastly expanding the space for finding sounds with just a few building blocks. So for example Cello Mod => Mellow Mod => Synth Mod becomes …

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How to run this

1. You need MG3.0.66 or later.
   Downloads - JAM ORIGIN

2. And you need to install this AUv3 plugin, but don’t use it as such (it’s very limited)! Instead, use MG 3.0.66 - it will have the new Mods inside: Join the Guitar Mods beta - TestFlight - Apple

3. Run MG3 and enable MG3=>preferences=>plugins=>Guitar Mods

[kimyo]

everything you ever wanted in your guitar synth, it is all here:

• antares auto-tune - check
• roland gr-300-esque latency / playability - (guessing, but) check
• superior midi note detection - check
• better than cosm string based modeling - (again, guessing, but) check

thank you santa for coming early this year.

it is truly an amazing time to be alive.

[David_Marshall]

@JamO

“modeled out of guitar sound”

Wow, I am certainly interested in this — The idea (even the processing) seems close the Roland/Boss guitar synth tech? On Roland/Boss Different guitar models (even basses) are very responsive indeed. I am sure the MG3 versions will be even better if this is developed.

Can’t wait to try this new MG3 tech out.

Best

David

[lwhite]

Too bad the new release wasn’t ready this week. Looking forward to trying it out when its ready to go.

[pasha]

I think that’s fantastic news. Are you making it running with and without hexaphonic Pickup?
I think this is a great development. As all of us know by now I am a fan of Deep Expressor. That module can really make incredible sounds from a simple guitar. Given the wizardry @ jamorigin I expect those Guitar Mods to be fantastic. Ole is the master programmer of magic innovation. I can’t wait to test it.
And I never forget that MIDI Guitar is there to open infinite expression capability. It’s a great plugin and it’ll become even better!

[kimyo]

@pasha

As all of us know by now I am a fan of Deep Expressor

fingers crossed that the latest update will include deep expressor presets and that you will be generous enough to share your favorites.

[pasha]

Sure! I did it in the past and plans are that I will continue doing so.

[JamO]

Sorry for the delays. I hope to get this out at least on iOS tomorrow, Mac on Tuesday, but I feel I should try to dampen the expectations a bit… The scope of this, in this first version very narrow, and its really more of a technical interest than musical interest at the moment.

From my side I need to make sure everything integrates nicely and have a platform to build on in the future, now that MG3 stabilize and get out of beta.

There were so many technical challenges in this… Obviously, polyphonic and low-latency is just fundamentally at odds, and add to that morphing from guitar into other instruments (complex instruments, not just oversaturated synths) is unknown territory. I wanted this to work with both polyphonic and hexaphonic MG3 and integrate seamlessly with MG3 modules, and it gave rise to all sorts of dilemmas. For example, when using Mods, the (relatively new and really nice sounding) polyphonic pitch shifter wouldn’t do because then its no longer (almost) latency free… so this has another kind (lower quality) audio pitch shifting that kicks in when using Mods. But it’s all transparent to the user.

I think the first Mods are decent sounding (but very limited): cello, bassoon, clarinet, sax, etc… but ironically, it’s missing a guitar mod! So for mimicking other guitars and deep expressor-like stuff, we’ll have to wait a bit. But it should all fit into the same framework. Currently, it’s also demanding on the CPU, but runs great on Apple Silicon.

I’m currently writing a bit about it at https://jam.live/products/GM and also https://jam.live/modules/tutorial

The latter part is maybe the main motivating part of all this - to have a (free) software for complete beginners, that just works out of the box and has some nice presets, without the need to install any VSTs or DAWs.

[pasha]

Sorry if I rose the expectations maybe too much. Is that we all know what you are capable of!
However, let alone the guitars. (IMHO) try to mimic Roland VG series in software can become a very daunting challenge. That technology runs on dedicated hardware for a reason. In the software world you introduce too many variables and the main one is the computer hardware. Today everybody is crazy about IR technology but a Stratocaster cannot morph into a Gibson Les Paul just by snapping fingers. Even in the Roland/Boss VG series you get close but not the real thing… however that is often good enough. Having the ability to play Sax Cello and Clarinet OOTB without any VST in your DAW or in MG3 is just a dream on its own and it was your promised targed when you announced MG3. Kudos for all the work done so far. Your examination of the challenges is very interesting and I agree 100%. I’ll help by testing as many others on this forum to send input. Have a nice evening.

[JamO]

Thank you @pasha for all your feedback and motivation, and for your hands

Now, it’s public on TestFlight for iOS/iPadOS. Also a new MG3 update for iOS/iPadOS.

Join the MIDI Guitar beta

Join the Guitar Mods beta

Important:

Don’t run Guitar Mods! Just install it, and make sure you also install the latest MG3 (3.0.68 from today). Then run MG3 and you should see a new category of Mods inside MG3.

Of course you can run Guitar Mods as well… but on its own more like a “MG lite” without midi

If there are any vocalists out there, it might be worth a try singing directly into this thing on an iPhone, as it kind of preserve the voice, but also change it.

MacOS version should be ready tomorrow.

[pasha]

I have downloaded yesterday the 0.64 which after installing show 0.65. Very much more refined and cool. I cannot find Mods. Is that right?

Thanks
Pasha

[David_Marshall]

I get the same.

Just found Guitar Mods via TestFlight — install this

Guitar Mods appear in module list.

David

[pasha]

HI David,
Thanks.
Is test flight also for Macs?

[David_Marshall]

Yes. I had not used it until yesterday myself.

[pasha]

Thanks. Installed Test Flight but it looks that the app is only iOS. It says ‘incompatible with this mac’ which is a Mac Studio from 2022.

[erol]

I’m on windows and watching intently! Mods could be useful I gig with MG-3 Hex and MG-3 Bass 3-5 nights a week right now (had been gigging 4-6 the last few months). Hoping to see a few more fixes to the beta. Would love individual string gains to be working, and really need a pre-loader, for patches to prevent silence between patch changes waiting for the new one to load in. MG-3 HEX for bass would be really nice too!

[David_Marshall]

Odd I just installed TestFlight and Guitar Mods on 2020 iMac m1 running OS 15.
TestFlight seems to be compatible back to OS 13.

Once TestFlight is installed, you need to follow step 2 here: Join the MIDI Guitar beta - TestFlight - Apple to " View MIDI Guitar Beta" and install the OSX version.

David

[David_Marshall]

OK, I have now had some time to try the Guitar Mods out.

Two issues:

1. I can get the mods working in standard midi guitar input but NOT in MG3 HEX!!! Bad news as I really need to use MG3 Hex for some external libraries and better midi tracking!!
   Am I doing something wrong or is thus just not implemented yet?
2. Whilst it works and plays/sounds promising in standard MG3, is there a way to not feed or filter the raw guitar audio? Even with only the guitar mod module loaded in one channel I still hear the guitar so I cannot solo the guitar mod!!! With instrument module loaded (even test synth) you only hear the synth patch and NO Guitar.
3. (not such a big issue) With an instrument or a Midi Output loaded in same channel you get NO Guitar mod output. Again this in not a behaviour you get if an instrument loaded in a channel with midi output.

[JamO]

Thank you for feedback.

This is strange.. and you are not the only one with this issue. Clearly something is wrong that I can’t reproduce or understand here. I will keep looking into it.

Issue 1) and 2) are probably connected:

It should work with hex, if (and only if) you have the main guitar pickup connected. Using a Boss unit, it’s a dual guitar cable setup, and the main signal is it’s at channel 1, whereas the hex signals are at channel 3..8.

This is because hex pickups (in particular when they sit right at the bridge) sounds very thin and “plucky”. So the mods needs the main guitar pickup on channel 1. That way they also change tone when using the pickup switch. But it still take advantage of channels 3..8 for hex tracking.

3. Ok, I see. Yes, I guess it should just process all of it. For now you need to put midi instruments/midi output on another chain.

[pasha]

Super Odd….done exactly as you said.