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Use a controller for Patch Change [DISCUSSION]


#1

Just wondering what other users experiences are with changing patches.

My set up:

Windows PC with Midi Guitar 2 on it. Native Instruments Rig Kontrol 3 (a hardware footswitch primarily used for NI Guitar Rig) is used to switch patches and control volume. Rename patches with 001 Organ , 002 Strings, for instance. I used the MIDI learn utility to assign the volume pedal on Rig Kontrol to the volume of the patches. Also dedicated one footswitch for sustain/hold.


#2

most users might not know all options, so I’ll add them here:

MIDI REMOTE options for MIDI Guitar 2.2.1

  1. Choose your controller in interface/ midinterface/ control

  2. You can send midi PC (Program Change) to MG, and MG will load different patches on every PC.
    The patches need to be renamed with leading numbers, so that MG can load the right one by simply alphavbetically sorting them.
    Like this:
    001 My first patch name (loads at PC 1)
    002 My second patch name (loads at PC 2)
    003 My fthird patch name (loads at PC 3)

  3. You can assign midi CC’s ( continuous Controllers) to the knobs in the upper part of the interface via interface / midi learn

  4. In the lower part of the screen sustain, transposer and some other scripts accepts CC’s do do custom stuff. You can alsa write your own midi machine scripts reacting to CC’s.


#3

I’m using Session View in Ableton - I have a line of like 50+ synths that I can select via foot controller. The synths are organized into groups (drums, basses, pads, synth leads, pulsing synths) etc. Button 1 on foot controller selects the next “group” of synths, button 2 selects the next synth in the group one at a time until I’ve selected the synth I want.

If anyone’s interested in a setup like this, let me know. You need ClyphX Pro to do it, I can supply the scripts I’ve written to do it.


#4

I have a simple setup at the moment. Microsoft Surface Pro 4 running Midi Guitar 2.2.1 free standing version with a Behringer FCB1010 foot controller for patch changes. I’ve been using the same ‘number the patches’ system you mentioned since the early beta versions of MG. I like to throw my arrangements together on the fly using a DigiTech JamMan Solo XT looper. This set up would be great for live performance except for the fact that midi cc commands can’t be sent to any vst effects in the guitar section of MG at this time. I have been told that this may be an enhancement in a future upgrade. Still waiting with baited breath lol. I’ve already retired my analogue pedal train in anticipation


#5

yes, we will forward CC’s to loaded fx plugs in the next update of the desktop version.


#6

I’d appreciate some help with this. Trying to setup a live performance rig with MG2 used as a plugin in Logic Pro X on my MacBook Pro. All of that works brilliantly but I haven’t been able to do any kind of switching with my Rocktron MidiXchange. Have spent hours reading Logic forums and trying things but no luck. What I want to do is have my usual arrangement of having 4 or 5 synths set up and be able to mute and/or unmute on the fly. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


#7

Logic doesn’t forward midi to fx, and there is no detour possible. All other major DAW’s have workarounds to get the input midi to a loaded fx.
If you run MG standalone, enable virtual midi, and use the “channel select” midi machine, you can switch MG presets, and have every preset adress 1 of the 16 possible channels.
Inside Logic you can have the instrument tracks assigned to different midi channels.


#8

I really like using MG as a plugin. I wonder if it’s possible to do both at the same time. Or maybe use MidiBass in stand alone and MidiGuitar as a plugin. But I’ve never tried to use the MidiXchange to do switching inside MG. I remember using MG in standalone way back when and immediately preferring the plugin mode when I got around to it. I’m going to guess that trying both modes, regardless of MidiGuitar or MidiBass is going to get messy at best.
I was able to plug an expression pedal into the MidiXchange and map it to the master volume. Should that even work? Is it because it’s just a different function? To be clear, I’m not trying to manipulate any parameters on anything. Just somehow enable, or unmute, or mute any particular track containing a synth. I had some weird partial success using smart controls, clearing the existing functiuons , and assigning one of the controls to mute. It didn’t mute anything. But all of the synth tracks lit up the record button, which is turning them on, sort of. So something is getting through, albeit lost in translation.
I’m starting to rue the day I switched to Logic. Except I do like it, and the synths are pretty great. I actually do have Live as well and have been meaning to learn how to use it inside of Logic. Maybe some sort of creative routing scenario like you described except have a track in Live routed to a track in Logic. Turn it off and on from Live? What a PITA.


#9

the alternative to standalone plus Logic X, is to use the Logic midi fx to switch channels on /off with a custom script… I dont know if someone has made them allready.
External mIdi input is available for synths and midi fx in logic.
Master volume (CC #7) is therefore forwarded to a loaded synth.


#10

Late response about midi cc commands sent to any vst effects (in guitar or synth section).

It is possible…but your plugin must be able to receive control changes. If not, no way to drive your plugin with external controller.

If it can receive cc, look for midi learn function in your plugin and map a controller.

If no midi learn function, try to find cc’s number’s fixed values in documentation provided with the plugin (readme files, etc) then assign them to your external controller.

In the latter case, assign incrementals values to your controller until something moves in your plugin :sweat:

My last use in vst control: assigned a cc’s number to an unlatch footswitch in order to change organ’s rotary speed. Guaranteed feelings with my guitar.


#11

Yeah, I only had one VST that I was trying to access with midi cc which had an individual assignment of controller which actually worked. That was an ancient 32 bit effect called “Coyote Wah”, but every time I switched patch the info was lost. All of my other VST effects for guitar which have cc capabilities don’t have individual controller assignment since they were designed to operate within a DAW. I have no trouble with midi cc in the synth section just the guitar only section. Thanks for your suggestion but I like using a mix of clean guitar, effected guitar, guitar synth blend and sampled SFZ classical instruments over looped background tracks live, switching patches on the fly. Right now midi cc is blocked in the guitar only section , making my expression pedals useless for those guitar only parts. Paul has promised cc forwarding in a future update of windows version. That will fulfill my wildest dreams lol.
Regards,
Max


#12

Does MG2, when used as a plugin, simply block any other midi sources? Or some midi sources, since I was able to map an expression pedal fro volume?


#13

Okay. Did a bunch more reading and it seems like hooking up any control surface/pedal/whatever is going to work better through a USB connection directly into the computer. I think trying to send midi through the interface is the main problem here. Logic seems to prefer a USB connected device, at least according to what I have read recently. If anyone has suggestions as to a good USB connected floor pedal system I will take a look. Seems like a lot of info online though. Thanks.


#14

Logic does not have a preference for which type of footcontroller you use: in the end it all are midi streams. A FCB1010 with legacy midi connected to a midi input on your audio interface will be just as good.
The bottleneck is that Logic does not forward incoming midi to audio fx such as MIDI Guitar.


#15

More precisely, the problem is the plugin used, wether in guitar or synth section, or even in a daw.
Most plugins have cc capabilities, even if not documented (in this case it must be adjusted as explained previously), but some of them do not store settings in memory.
For my part, some plugins store settings in MG2 but not in Reaper or VstHost while others do the opposite… Don’t ask me why !
Therefore, even if plugins’s cc commands are implemented in MG2, this will provide easier access, but it might not necessarily enable settings storage because of plugins restrictions.


#16

Paul, thanks. You are helping to clarify my thinking at least. MG2 is acting as a midi effect controlling pitch and other dynamics. Got it ( I think). Once MG2 is in there as a control source Logic does not let another control source through? Regardless now I think I understand your first reply to me. I was just being stubborn in thinking it couldn’t, or shouldn’t, be that hard. So I set up a few quick patches but I still can’t get a patch change in MG2. For the control setting I tried using the Tac-2R Reserved port and the Tac-2R Midi IO Port. The Xchange pedal does not appear in the list. And for the channel setting I tried Omni/All and channel 1, which is what the Xchange pedal is set to. I don’t see a way that the midi learn function is applicable. The Midi Xchange is a pretty straight forward program change up/down and recall , three button pedal. But no luck. Am I doing something wrong?


#17

Success! Just came back to the studio, powered up to try some things and the Xchange pedal is changing patches in MG with just one oddity of being offset by one digit. Pedal says 5, MG says 4, etc. So I set up the midi machine for midi channel select. Then I set up a template in Logic with two synth tracks each on a different midi channel. But changing the patch and midi channel in MG isn’t making any difference in Logic. I don’t know if my mistake is in my MG programming or in Logic.


#18

Hi, Herold
Thanks for your reply. Most of the VST plugins in my library do have cc capabilities and I know when I use them in my DAW they remember the cc values assigned. My hope is that when MG gives midi cc access to the guitar section in its next windows update it will operate as it does in the DAW when used as a VST host. Anyway, I’m a retired old guitar picker with a tight budget. MG has been an economical answer to my cravings for access to champagne sounds on a beer budget lol.
Regards
Max


closed #19

opened #20