Don’t you think it’s more likely crosstalk than transmission through the body? If it were transmitted vibrations, the high E string should also show a signal (have you checked that?). Whatever it is most likely it can’t be eliminated hardware or installation wise.
i certainly can’t rule anything out. if there is a test which would implicate crosstalk rather than body xfer let me know.
based on my current thinking though, the crosstalk is the first ‘tap’. it would necessarily occur simultaneously with the neighboring string hit, as it does.
in terms of the.david.v’s observations (and mine), it seems probable that the thing which triggers the on/off note cycle is the second tap.
if in the end we conclude that it is body xfer i will try to install the subsix as i would any other ‘real’ pickup and put it on springs. this should reduce the xfer significantly.
@kimyo Do you think the “b string” trick that you mentioned could help with this? Have you tried your guitar with all B strings with the subsix?
“there is the ‘b’ string trick, which does shave off 2-3msec, this can only be done with hex. using all ‘b’ strings mg3 reports 4msec latency on my system. the same guitar with standard strings is usually at 6-7.”
most, maybe all of my subsix time has been using BBBBBB. with EADGBE (on another guitar) the problem becomes more evident.
another factor is the body size, the BBBBBB is a travel guitar with essentially no body. the EADGBE is an ibanez rg421 and weighs more than twice as much.
the primary reason i use BBBBBB is that the latency is confined to a very narrow range, ie: E2 and E4 trigger in roughly the same amount of time. however i just read the following and i’m not clear on how it affects the total range:
Pitch range limitation: total cascaded pitch range of -24…+24 for hex
maybe this applies to the combination of string retuning and whammy or retuning and chordshift?
in any case, that’s a secondary issue for now. next up on my list: 1) find a way to fully isolate the subsix on the ibanez and 2) route out a cavity for the subsix on the travel guitar.
hopefully one or the other will provide further confirmation (or refutation) of the body xfer problem.
in your case, you could compare interference on your guitar as is, looking at the high E and B strings vs the low E and A. if you find a difference, that would support a tryout with all B strings.
note though that hex string retuning is cpu heavy, i’m willing to trade the cpu cycles for the fixed latency but you may not be.
That is interesting that hex retuning is cpu intensive— I assume that it would just do a midi transpose per string if the only output is an instrument and not audio. Midi transpose is likely not cpu intensive I assume.
So far what seems to help me the most is playing soft and turning up gain and perfectly setting the gate level. Playing soft helps because logically it reduces the body resonance issue (at least it seems like it…).
My main issue I’m trying to solve is the beating notes issue not latency. I may try the all B guitar and see how it performs. Thanks for the idea. So with only 24 semi tones I may not be able to get to every note from a b string. Maybe it can. I do custom tunings sometimes too
you are correct, midi transpose requires next to no cpu.
how and where is your subsix attached? what type of guitar?
the gate being effective kind of negates the body xfer theory, i think. as the string has already opened the gate, the gate won’t block the interference (if it is coming in a delayed fashion from the body). so, this may point elsewhere.
I have attached to a fender jaguar using the sticky pads that come with the guitar. It is right in between the pickups with around 4mm of clearance from string. Extra lite strings nyxl .009-.042.
Is there a midi transpose per string? (Hex version)
the string retuner is both for audio and midi. if you have a midi output on the chain it will do midi only.
i am starting to wonder if the fender pickguards are resonant in a way which exacerbates the problem.
they could be acting as a soundboard over a mini acoustic cavity, or perhaps carry/enhance a different part of the signal, causing increased false note messages.
if you have a little more vertical space near the bridge it might be worth trying the subsix there using the thicker pads.
if time allows please record a few separate string snippets, it would be useful to compare those with mine.
What if I just have an instrument vst and string retuner only (retuner first)… will it still process audio or will it do just midi transpose.
I can work on creating the audio clips.
It is on a vintage jag from 1964 so it has the celluloid pick guard
the instrument vst will also take over the audio path and disable the audio retuning.
the upload is limited to ~4mb per file so the audio files have to be short.
it seems clear that a pickguard would convey more vibration than a solid body guitar. less clear is if the subsix would pickup that vibration.
if so, the ubertar hex pickup may be a better choice for fender players.
imagine going back to 1964 with your mg3hex midi-fied jag in hand. they’d probably execute you for witchcraft.
Have you had better experiences with ubertar?
Are Dropbox links ok? I can do that.
i have an ubertar quad bass pickup, like the subsix it is very ‘hot’.
i filed it away due to crosstalk, but this was before mg3hex became available.
so i can’t really give it a review as it applies to this case. but like the subsix it sounds great. i’ll dig it up once the weather warms up a bit and give it a more proper test.
dropbox is fine.
i was thinking about this and it seems to me that an expander sidechain might work better than a gate.
slightly boosting the E string signal when a note is played on the A could reduce the note on/off problem.
i’ve got the subsix reinstalled with pretty decent isolation, although it is still too close to the strings. there’s a bunch of snow coming in, so hopefully i’ll have some time to test things out.
if the isolation doesn’t improve matters i’ll see about the expander.
now that the subsix is better isolated the second spike is no longer present. the frequency of the interference is significantly reduced.
in fact, on these you can hear the graphtech mistrigger when the subsix does not.
i have another set though with the exact opposite.
these were recorded simultaneously.
- mg3piezo piano
- mg3subsix piano
- piezo input (E left A right)
- subsix input (E left A right)
i have some thin foam underneath the mounting plate, and some thicker foam between the plate and the pickup. the only contact point between the pickup and body is the mounting screws.
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