MG3, Logic and Focusrite

Just tested the downloaded beta version 3, though cannot get it to work (no input signal available via Focusrite Scarlett v3) and I don’t understand the new GUI which seems full of new features and effects. The most important question to me: Will version 3 have any improvements regarding the note/midi accuracity or is it more of an improvement regarding a lot of built in effects and advanced routing etc?

It has huge improvements in both sectors. The beta test version is “limited” to 256 samples and 44.1 kHz at the moment. Make sure your system is set to this values and do the audio setup.

See also the various videos “LoFiLeif” produced to introduce MG3 / here is one of it:

Thanks Dutti, now I managed to set it up thanks to Leifis video, hard to say how good it triggers at this stage, as 256 samples is the minimum setting (but even at this setting it feels like the lowest setting (64) in Midi Guitar 2 som this seems promising! The GUI is at this first look quite confusing, and in Logic only 1 ROW works which make it HUGE (impossible to use). This will hopefully/probably be fixed later on.

Good! If you create a new patch you should be able to select 1,2 or 3 rows.

Yes Dutti, works in Logic too now, but 256 samples is far from ok for live playing/usage so we have to wait until this has been fixed and see then how it works…

Dont use this for live usage! :wink: Use version 2, until after BETA testing.

Of course we will address the fixed buffer size and sample rate limitations. I have explained a technical reason for this limitation on the beta page and in this post.

I’m a solo developer and I get feedback on 5 different channels and generally, the only way I can keep track of it all, while doing these developments, is that i know what settings people have, and open up in small steps.

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Thanks JamO. What I mean with “live” is using it during playback/recording in Logic. For example if I want to use the guitar to add a midi bass it’s not possible (not possible to play well) and that is/was never possible for me either with version 2. The latency is simply too high.

Please check your Logic settings and interface then. Try to compare Logic with the standalone MGs to see if it’s something specific to Logic. Even with 256 buffer size it’s comparable to hardware hex pickup solutions.

My apologies for this, but after some adjusting in the GAIN and NOISE GATE it works pretty well for “live” use (recording in Logic). Though, when checking out recorded ghost notes (comparing MG2 and MG3) it’s no difference. Should it be any difference, or is it a setting somewhere to avoid very very short notes (what i call ghost notes)? Maybe a setting to set the minimum note time to be “recorded”?

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The “ghost notes” come mainly from unclean playing. I recommend to work on your playing style first before you consider to use any filters or re-trigger gates (they can be found under MIDI machines / or in most DAW’s). Take your time and practice, strumming is the least forgiving playing technique, try picking either with the fingers or a pick.

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The playing technique is of course important. The “problem” as a guitar player could be we get worse “guitar players” if we have to drastically change the playing technique to run a MIDI guitar. Yeah, it’s of course good to learn new stuff, but I guess you get my point. So I ask again: Is it any difference between how MG2 and MG3 is “listening” to the data coming into the software and transforming it to MIDI?

Yes, there are many changes in terms of tracking… I’m almost embarrassed to say that it represents over 6 years of intensive work here, over version 2, on the tracking ML alone. There is of course a law of diminishing returns (MG2 was really good already) and the devil is in the details.

The main news is that it’s tracking for MPE, in four dimensions. The pitch resolution is much higher in MG3 (it was the main weakness in MG2, as it would not bend any note, when more than one note was sounding). With MPE, you can feel the small natural fluctuations in pitch (and also pressure and brightness) coming from your guitar and for me it gives a sense of “connection” to the MIDI, that was always lacking with MIDI guitars. Less spurious notes and re-triggers on releasing a note.

Beware, since you use this in Logic: there is (probably) a latency penalty over using it standalone currently. As mentioned on the beta page we havent really started testing this in DAWs, and we need to implement a new Apple technology (audio workgroup) for it to improve.


In my opinion the unwanted artefacts and the amount of ghost notes has improved a lot comparing MG2 to MG3. So, there must be some difference in how MG3 “listens” to the notes. But also MG3 can mis-trigger if too many unnecessary noises are generated while playing. It still comes down to the playing style, maybe just not that much anymore as with MG2.

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Thanks for good and informative replies!

2 posts were split to a new topic: Recording Ideas (video)

2 posts were split to a new topic: How to start building patches?

Btw, I just tested to record a simple electric guitar in Logic with Buffer 256/low latency mode, without plugins, and it’s far from ok, way too much latency to be able to play properly. So, I guess with an instrument and 256 samples it’s at least as “bad”. With samples set to 64 the simple electric guitar is playable.

It is always interesting to know what ”simple electric guitar” you were using when getting these results. Virtual guitars and basses are not all the same. Some sampled virtual guitars try to enhance realism by adding the pick/string plucking noise, delaying the sounding pitch content as a result. While this is not a problem for keybord input, it certainly gets confusing for guitarplayers (getting two transient pick sounds - our real one and then the sampled one). This does not mean that MG3 is in anyway slow, even if you get unplayable results. Some of these instruments have as an option to skip the added transient or pick and removing the extra delay, but it is very much a question of what intrument you use, if you get usable resuts or not.

It was a Gibson Les Paul direct in to the audio interface, to Logic with input monitoring activated to be able to hear. No extra effects. Difficult (unreal) to play with I/O buffer size 256 activated, while easy (real) at I/O buffer size 64.

Yeah, this is expected. Buffer sizes cause latency - how much depend on your interface and DAW. At 48KHz, an audio interface roundtrip latency is typically around ~20ms at 256, ~15ms at 128 and ~10ms at 64, but it varies quite a lot among different audio interfaces and drivers.

This is all expected and it means that when we get the buffersize lower (or samplerate higher) in MG3, its latency will be even lower (as described on the beta page). It’s only good that this kind of latency is not caused by the tracking technology, but simply by I/O.